Hello Atheists, Agnostics and Deists

[innerminds]

...what I meant by religious without a religion is kinda like what Einstein meant when he was challenged by an atheist with "I hear that you are supposed to be deeply religious". Einstein replied with:

"Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious."

That was beautiful. Now, is it logical to say that Einstein appears to be a deist?

[justinaquino]

Thanks for the warm welcome, Powghee and Frank. Hmmm...a 'Christian freethinker' and a 'very religious person without religion'...I know it's all semantics, but some people would say there's an oxymoron in there somewhere. Care to elaborate please?

I think the word used to describe that is "Spiritual". Personally, I call the atheist version of "religious" or "spiritual" humanistic. They are kinda the same in practice, a set of behavior used to get along with others, communicate respect, and to share ideas and experiences. Although, as an Atheist, my appreciation of Religion vs Spirituality, I find spirituality more appealing since it doesn't rely on an Authority instead on Empathy, Insight, Learning, and Experiences .

[frank]

is it logical to say that Einstein appears to be a deist?

Well, there's no need to speculate, he was fairly explicit about his views:

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

and

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

[powghee]

a christian freethinker, I don't bring my pitchfork to a discussion with other freethinkers. I don't give the devil credit for all the evil in the world we've done enough damage by ourselves. I agree that freethinkers can have morals apart from Judeo-Christian thinking. While not an absolute morality I understand that you have a self governing morality.

free from the strictures of denomination, subscribing to the opinions of one author, one favorite pastor and free to read the bible under my own research and skill (i'm a language major trained to read text in various criticisms even post-modernist modes). I second guess preachers and research things for myself. I hate organized religion and see relationship with God (or lack of it) as a personal thing. I'm not afraid of scientific development. I don't attack evolutionists and consider evolution and adaptation, chemistry and physics a possible means of God in creating the universe I guess in that manner I believe in Intelligent Design (creationism in a cheap coat i think is the term used by others) and see the scientific method as a valid means to explore our universe.

I'm not afraid to say that I don't understand God entirely, that at times I'm angry and at times I think he's unfair because he holds all the cards. I ask the common atheist question why don't you just show yourself and make it easier for the rest of us.

Red's asked me this and the only reason I'm not an atheist is the unverifiable and unjustifiable and unreasonable reason that I've experienced God (or thought I have as some of you might want to put it). There's no proving it I can't but it's what I know to be true. And to not believe will be to lie to myself. If I got laid with Angel Locsin, and have no picture, no scandal video or even a motel receipt to prove it, and I go around bragging about it guys would go "yeah right". It's just my experience and I have nothing to show for. I understand that that statement can be seen as dangerous or delusional or both. I know a time and place to preach and that place is not here. So don't ask what you don't want to hear and don't ask what you already know the answer or think you know the answer to. I see others fish for a question only to start an argument. It's not a sweeping generalization just an observation.

I'm here to represent other Christians who don't have the guts to see their faith from a 3rd person point of view in fear of losing it. I'm here to show myself as a Christian who's willing to listen to everyone else I'll be your go to guy to answer anything Christian and answer you without prejudice.

I like this group and I like the fact that here I see many atheists not afraid to read the bible and have real questions and know what they are talking about. I actually say I wish more Christians have a skeptic drive to research things on their own and not rely on another person's understanding.

I hope you guys will be able to take me seriously.

(sorry for the slight defensive stance, couldn't be helped)

[powghee]

frank, justin thanks you understand.

yes spiritual not religious.

[innerminds]

the only reason I'm not an atheist is the unverifiable and unjustifiable and unreasonable reason that I've experienced God (or thought I have as some of you might want to put it). There's no proving it I can't but it's what I know to be true. And to not believe will be to lie to myself.

That was beautiful. I feel the same way too, and that 'unverifiable and unjustifiable and unreasonable reason' that we experience God is what I'd like to call 'Grace'. I've written something about it actually: http://innerminds.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/what-return-can-i-make/

[Twin-Skies]

Hello, my nickname is Tim, and I'm a deist.

I left the Roman Catholic faith roughly a month ago, around the time Pope Benedict made this inane comparison between homosexuality and the destruction of the rainforests. I'm not gay, but I doubt I have to be to realize that what Benedict said is utter vitriol.

I'd considered myself a very liberal Catholic before that event (Jesuit-educated), but I'd already been developing doubts over my faith as I read more and more. Pope Benedict's quotes was the last straw for me - I could not in good conscience support an organization that so brazenly promoted bigotry and hate.

I'm not particularly vindictive against people who hold to their religion. I do ask them, however, to not try to convert me or pretend that they have special privileges in the real world just because of their chosen faith.

That aside, I hope to make friends among the forums, and I do hope you guys will put up with my random episodes of silliness.

[innerminds]

Hello, my nickname is Tim, and I'm a deist.

I left the Roman Catholic faith roughly a month ago, around the time Pope Benedict made this inane comparison between homosexuality and the destruction of the rainforests. I'm not gay, but I doubt I have to be to realize that what Benedict said is utter vitriol.

I'd considered myself a very liberal Catholic before that event (Jesuit-educated), but I'd already been developing doubts over my faith as I read more and more. Pope Benedict's quotes was the last straw for me - I could not in good conscience support an organization that so brazenly promoted bigotry and hate.

I'm not particularly vindictive against people who hold to their religion. I do ask them, however, to not try to convert me or pretend that they have special privileges in the real world just because of their chosen faith.

That aside, I hope to make friends among the forums, and I do hope you guys will put up with my random episodes of silliness.

Welcome, Twin-Skies! I am looking forward to having wonderful discussions with you in the future. You're new here? It might help if you read some of the latest topics (including the one about why people decide to become atheists) because you'll get to know a bit more about your fellow freethinkers here.

By the way, you should put your introduction in a new post.

[Twin-Skies]

My bad. Will do.